[gpfsug-discuss] Quotas and AFM

Mon Oct 14 07:29:05 BST 2019

As Simon already mentioned, set the similar quotas at both cache and home 
clusters to avoid the queue stuck problem due to quotas being exceeds 
home.

>At home we had replication of two so it wasn't straight forward to set 
the same quotas on cache, we could just about fudge it for user home 
directories but not for most of our project storage as we use dependent 
fileaet >quotas.

AFM will support dependent filesets from 5.0.4. Dependent filesets can be 
created at the cache in the independent fileset and set the same quotas 
from the home

>We also saw issues with data in inode at home as this doesn't work at AFM 
cache so it goes into a block. I've forgotten the exact issues around that 
now.

AFM uses some inode space to store the remote file attributes like file 
handle, file times etc.. as part of the EAs. If the file does not have 
hard links, maximum inode space used by the AFM is around 200 bytes. AFM 
cache can store the file's data in the inode if it have 200 bytes of more 
free space in the inode, otherwise file's data will be stored in subblock 
rather than using the full block. For example if the inode size is 4K at 
both cache and home, if the home file size is 3k and inode is using 300 
bytes to store the file metadata, then free space in the inode at the home 
will be 724 bytes(4096 - (3072 + 300)). When this file is cached by the 
AFM , AFM adds internal EAs for 200 bytes, then the free space in the 
inode at the cache will be 524 bytes(4096 - (3072 + 300 + 200)). If the 
filesize is 3600 bytes at the home, AFM cannot store the data in the inode 
at the cache. So AFM stores the file data in the block only if it does not 
have enough space to store the internal EAs.

~Venkat (vpuvvada at in.ibm.com)

From:   Simon Thompson <S.J.Thompson at bham.ac.uk>
To:     gpfsug main discussion list <gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org>
Date:   10/12/2019 01:52 AM
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] Re: [gpfsug-discuss] Quotas and AFM
Sent by:        gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org

Oh and I forgot. This only works if you precache th data from home. 
Otherwise the disk usage at cache is only what you cached, as you don't 
know what size it is from home.

Unless something has changed recently at any rate.

Simon

From: gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org 
<gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org> on behalf of Simon Thompson 
<S.J.Thompson at bham.ac.uk>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 9:10:20 PM
To: gpfsug main discussion list <gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org>
Subject: Re: [gpfsug-discuss] Quotas and AFM 

Yes just set the quotas the same on both. Or a default quota and have 
exceptions if that works in your case. But this was where I think the 
inode in file is an issue if you have a lot of small files as in the inode 
at home they don't consume quota I think but as they are in a data block 
at cache they do. So it might now be quite so straightforward.

And yes writes at home just get out of space, it's the AFM cache that 
fails on the write back to home but then its in the queue and can block 
it.

Simon

From: gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org 
<gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org> on behalf of Ryan Novosielski 
<novosirj at rutgers.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 9:05:15 PM
To: gpfsug main discussion list <gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org>
Subject: Re: [gpfsug-discuss] Quotas and AFM 

Do you know is there anything that prevents me from just setting the 
quotas the same on the IW cache, if there’s no way to inherit? For the 
case of the home directories, it’s simple, as they are all 100G with some 
exceptions, so a default user quota takes care of almost all of it. 
Luckily, that’s right now where our problem is, but we have the potential 
with other filesets later. 

I’m also wondering if you can confirm that I should /not/ need to be 
looking at people who are writing to the at home fileset, where the quotas 
are set, as a problem syncing TO the cache, e.g. they don’t add to the 
queue. I assume GPFS sees the over quota and just denies the write, yes? I 
originally thought the problem was in that direction and was totally 
perplexed about how it could be so stupid. 😅

--
____
|| \\UTGERS, |---------------------------*O*---------------------------
||_// the State     |         Ryan Novosielski - novosirj at rutgers.edu
|| \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS 
Campus
||  \\    of NJ     | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, 
Newark
    `'

On Oct 11, 2019, at 15:56, Simon Thompson <S.J.Thompson at bham.ac.uk> wrote:

Yes.

When we ran AFM, we had exactly this issue. What would happen is that a 
user/fileset quota would be hit and a compute job would continue writing. 
This would eventually fill the AFM queue. If you were lucky you could stop 
and restart the queue and it would process other files from other users 
but inevitably we'd get back to the same state. The solution was to 
increase the quota at home to clear the queue, kill user workload and then 
reduce their quota again.

At home we had replication of two so it wasn't straight forward to set the 
same quotas on cache, we could just about fudge it for user home 
directories but not for most of our project storage as we use dependent 
fileaet quotas.

We also saw issues with data in inode at home as this doesn't work at AFM 
cache so it goes into a block. I've forgotten the exact issues around that 
now.

So our experience was much like you describe.

Simon

From: <gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org> on behalf of Ryan 
Novosielski <novosirj at rutgers.edu>
Sent: Friday, 11 October 2019, 18:43
To: gpfsug main discussion list
Subject: [gpfsug-discuss] Quotas and AFM

Does anyone have any good resources or experience with quotas and AFM 
caches? Our scenario is that we have an AFM home one one site, an AFM 
cache on another site, and then a client cluster on that remote site that 
mounts the cache. The AFM filesets are IW. One of them contains our home 
directories, which have a quota set on the home side. Quotas were disabled 
entirely on the cache side (I enabled them recently, but did not set them 
to anything). What I believe we’re running into is scary long AFM queues 
that are caused by people writing an amount that is over the home quota to 
the cache, but the cache is accepting it and then failing to sync back to 
the home because the user is at their hard limit. I believe we’re also 
seeing delays on unaffected users who are not over their quota, but that’s 
harder to tell. We have the AFM gateways poorly/not tuned, so that is 
likely interacting. Is there any way to make the quotas apparent to the 
cache cluster too, beyond setting a quota there as well, or do I just 
fundamentally misunderstand this in some other way? We really just want 
the quotas on the home cluster to be enforced everywhere, more or less. 
Thanks! -- ____ || \\UTGERS, 
|---------------------------*O*--------------------------- ||_// the State 
| Ryan Novosielski - novosirj at rutgers.edu || \\ University | Sr. 
Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus || \\ of NJ | Office 
of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, Newark `' 
_______________________________________________ gpfsug-discuss mailing 
list gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org 
http://gpfsug.org/mailman/listinfo/gpfsug-discuss 
_______________________________________________
gpfsug-discuss mailing list
gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org
http://gpfsug.org/mailman/listinfo/gpfsug-discuss
_______________________________________________
gpfsug-discuss mailing list
gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gpfsug.org_mailman_listinfo_gpfsug-2Ddiscuss&d=DwICAg&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=92LOlNh2yLzrrGTDA7HnfF8LFr55zGxghLZtvZcZD7A&m=FQMV8_Ivetm1R6_TcCWroPT58pjhPJgL39pgOdQEiqw&s=DfvksQLrKgv0OpK3Dr5pR-FUkhNddIvieh9_8h1jyGQ&e= 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://gpfsug.org/pipermail/gpfsug-discuss_gpfsug.org/attachments/20191014/645871f8/attachment.htm>