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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, that’s correct. Atime, mtime and ctime can be changed, in addition, if the file is under an immutable fileset, mtime and ctime can be changed, atime is overloaded with expiration time.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><hupancha@in.ibm.com> on behalf of "scale@us.ibm.com" <scale@us.ibm.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 8:57 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>gpfsug main discussion list <gpfsug-discuss@gpfsug.org><br>
<b>Cc: </b>gpfsug-discuss <gpfsug-discuss-bounces@gpfsug.org>, "juergen.hannappel@desy.de" <juergen.hannappel@desy.de>, "p.ward@nhm.ac.uk" <p.ward@nhm.ac.uk>, Haizhu Liu <haizhu@us.ibm.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gpfsug-discuss] immutable file in an immutable folder can be touched<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From design docs can see that Spectrum scale allows changing of timestamps for immutable files.</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">+ Haizhu to confirm this as well.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Regards, The Spectrum Scale (GPFS) team<br>
<br>
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If you feel that your question can benefit other users of Spectrum Scale (GPFS), then please post it to the public IBM developerWroks Forum at
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If your query concerns a potential software error in Spectrum Scale (GPFS) and you have an IBM software maintenance contract please contact 1-800-237-5511 in the United States or your local IBM Service Center in other countries.
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The forum is informally monitored as time permits and should not be used for priority messages to the Spectrum Scale (GPFS) team.</span><br>
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<img border="0" width="16" height="16" style="width:.1666in;height:.1666in" id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.gif@01D84352.57823540" alt="Inactive hide details for "Paul Ward" ---28-03-2022 06.56.04 PM---Hi Jürgen, We noticed this behaviour when we were trying to t"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#424282">"Paul
Ward" ---28-03-2022 06.56.04 PM---Hi Jürgen, We noticed this behaviour when we were trying to test immutability on our newly installed</span><br>
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<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">From: </span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Paul Ward" <p.ward@nhm.ac.uk></span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">To: </span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"gpfsug main discussion list" <gpfsug-discuss@gpfsug.org></span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Date: </span>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">28-03-2022 06.56 PM</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Subject:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">[EXTERNAL] Re: [gpfsug-discuss] immutable file in an immutable folder can be touched</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5F5F5F">Sent by:
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"gpfsug-discuss" <gpfsug-discuss-bounces@gpfsug.org></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Hi Jürgen,</span></tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
<tt>We noticed this behaviour when we were trying to test immutability on our newly installed solution.</tt><br>
<tt>We tried using touch with a date in the past to test the expiry date.</tt><br>
<tt>We noticed although touch changed the timestamp, it didn't change wherever the policy engine checked.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>We found a work around for our testing, so I think we accepted it as a 'feature'.
</tt><br>
<tt>I can't find a support ticket, so I am assuming we didn't report it.</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>Kindest regards,</tt><br>
<tt>Paul</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Paul Ward</tt><br>
<tt>TS Infrastructure Architect</tt><br>
<tt>Natural History Museum</tt><br>
<tt>T: 02079426450</tt><br>
<tt>E: p.ward@nhm.ac.uk</tt><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt>-----Original Message-----</tt><br>
<tt>From: gpfsug-discuss <gpfsug-discuss-bounces@gpfsug.org> On Behalf Of Hannappel, Juergen</tt><br>
<tt>Sent: 28 March 2022 13:25</tt><br>
<tt>To: gpfsug-discuss <gpfsug-discuss@gpfsug.org></tt><br>
<tt>Subject: Re: [gpfsug-discuss] immutable file in an immutable folder can be touched</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>... if I try a similar action e.g on ext4 where I can use the posix way with ioctl(fd, FS_IOC_GETFLAGS, &flags) flags |= FS_IMMUTABLE_FL; ioctl(fd, FS_IOC_SETFLAGS, &flags)</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>the touch fails and the mtime remains unchanged....</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>----- Original Message -----</tt><br>
<tt>> From: "Juergen Hannappel" <juergen.hannappel@desy.de></tt><br>
<tt>> To: "gpfsug main discussion list" <gpfsug-discuss@spectrumscale.org></tt><br>
<tt>> Sent: Monday, 28 March, 2022 11:50:50</tt><br>
<tt>> Subject: [gpfsug-discuss] immutable file in an immutable folder can be </tt>
<br>
<tt>> touched</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>> Hi,</tt><br>
<tt>> I have an immutable file in an immutable folder:</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> mmchattr -i yes mutabilityTest/file</tt><br>
<tt>> mmchattr -i yes mutabilityTest</tt><br>
<tt>> ls -la mutabilityTest</tt><br>
<tt>> total 18</tt><br>
<tt>> drwxr-xr-x 2 hannappj it 4096 Mar 28 11:45 .</tt><br>
<tt>> drwxr-xr-x 7 hannappj it 8192 Mar 28 11:45 ..</tt><br>
<tt>> -rw-r--r-- 1 hannappj it 30 Mar 28 11:45 file</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> mmlsattr -L mutabilityTest mutabilityTest/file | grep immu</tt><br>
<tt>> immutable: yes</tt><br>
<tt>> immutable: yes</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> Now i do a touch:</tt><br>
<tt>> touch mutabilityTest/file</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> no error, and the modification time is changed:</tt><br>
<tt>> ls -la mutabilityTest</tt><br>
<tt>> total 18</tt><br>
<tt>> drwxr-xr-x 2 hannappj it 4096 Mar 28 11:45 .</tt><br>
<tt>> drwxr-xr-x 7 hannappj it 8192 Mar 28 11:45 ..</tt><br>
<tt>> -rw-r--r-- 1 hannappj it 30 Mar 28 11:46 file</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> stat mutabilityTest/file</tt><br>
<tt>> File: 'mutabilityTest/file'</tt><br>
<tt>> Size: 30 Blocks: 2 IO Block: 4194304 regular file</tt><br>
<tt>> Device: 2eh/46d Inode: 112989 Links: 1</tt><br>
<tt>> Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: (28851/hannappj) Gid: ( 1000/ it)</tt><br>
<tt>> Access: 2022-03-28 11:46:28.454807982 +0200</tt><br>
<tt>> Modify: 2022-03-28 11:46:28.454807982 +0200</tt><br>
<tt>> Change: 2022-03-28 11:46:28.454807982 +0200</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> Shouldn't the immutability of the file include its change time?</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> --</tt><br>
<tt>> Dr. Jürgen Hannappel DESY/IT Tel. : +49 40 8998-4616</tt><br>
<tt>> </tt><br>
<tt>> _______________________________________________</tt><br>
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